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...The Panel at Comic Con is gonna be interesting
If any of you guys haven't read the recent RTD interviews about the end of Day 4, they can be found here and here. (Obviously spoilery)
Now, the first interview, I have absolutely no problem with. I mean, the "poetry" comment is weird (since when is poetry happy? *boggles*), and the Supernatural comment came off pretty badly, but...
The SPN thing was a good-natured joke (although not exactly in the best taste); I can understand him being annoyed by allegations of homophobia (Queer as Folk, guys; and he's being judged based on unfortunate implications from one miniseries); and... he's a writer who made a successful drama. Millions of people not only enjoyed it but, judging by the AIs, loved it, and he pulled people's heartstrings, just like he wanted.
RTD believes in what he wrote and why he wrote it, and he isn't about to let a few thousand people out of millions (a distinct minority) change his opinion. After what happened to Moran, I'm sure he's pretty annoyed by certain members of fandom too. And I think that's okay.
The second interview, on the other hand...
Most of what he says is fine, and I completely agree with it. Seeing the potential of what Jack and Ianto could have had die along with everything Ianto has already had did make the tragedy (NOTE: Not drama, tragedy) more poignant, and I can see why he made Jack and Ianto be just on the cusp of acknowledging their relationship as a relationship when Ianto dies. I can also see how he used Ianto's death as an impetus for Jack's actions (even if that does downplay the character to a plot point in Jack's character arc, which, um, I have a few issues with but anyway).
What I am not a fan of is this bit:
AE: I understand Ianto dying in order to push Captain Jack to do what he needed to do. But a lot of fans felt like they never got to see Jack and Ianto as the full-fledged couple that they wanted to see them as. We only began to see that in this miniseries. So how do you respond to viewers who feel cheated that they got the tragic death without seeing the relationship.
...
I think you’re being polite and part of what you're saying is that it wasn’t a properly sexualized relationship … that we didn’t show enough details … I think that’s absolute nonsense.
...Um, what?!
We got the sex, thanks. We got enough implied sex to make even the kinkiest porn plausible (well, much of it, anyway). We get it, they were doing it, and while we saw more of Owen's bedroom fun, I sincerely doubt most people were going "You know what their relationship really needs? Five minutes in the bedroom! Not any of that silly emotional stuff or the sorts of looks Jack gives Gwen or conversations or even tiny signs of affection, but rimming. Oh yeah."
I mean, yes, I won't deny that the scene in "Adrift" was hot and that there was much clamor for more.
But what I'm pretty sure most fans of the relationship wanted is what most fans of any relationship want: the romance and the emotional connection.
Personally, I don't ship Nine/Rose and Ten/Rose because of all the times we see them shagging on the console, and I don't think that would have improved the show or their relationship in any way. If anything, I think season 1's love story was one of the best I've ever seen. I also don't think Gwen/Rhys is wonderful because of how sexy Rhys is with his pants off (does anyone understand RTD's comments about people not liking Gwen/Rhys? Anyone? Bueller...?), and I don't see how adding in a few scenes of that would make us love it any more.
Because what Gwen and Rhys have, what we've been shown, is a solid relationship in which the two parties talk, and kiss, and date, and challenge each other, and support one another.
In terms of actual Jack/Ianto, what helped make the last scene of "Day 1" wasn't the kiss but the desperation behind it. And honestly, Jack's "Then I take it back, all right? I take it all back, but not him!" was a scene with a lot more power than the shagging in Adrift.
What so many fans wanted was the sort of give and take Rhys and Gwen got, real conversations and not just flirtation, emotional support and challenges and love and, yes, real drama. To a large extent, I do think we got that in Children of Earth more so than in season 2 and certainly more so than in season 1, because in those seasons, Jack/Ianto wasn't a real relationship yet and then, when it became one, it either wasn't shown, or we mainly got the sexual aspect of it. (I'm not saying there wasn't any development; "To the Last Man" sticks out in my mind as a very emotional and touching moment, and I love when Jack asks Ianto out in "Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang"--wonderfully acted, both scenes. But I am saying that just about every other relationship got so much more actual 'relationship' and less 'we do stuff with stopwatches and UNIT caps').
What really gets to me about that comment is the implicit assumption that all Jack/Ianto fans are just slash fangirls who want the pretty boys to make out more. That they don't care about the story or the characters, only the Hot.
Essentially, RTD seems to be lumping all fans of this relationship into a tiny box full of shallow slashers who only want boys kissing, which is an insult to the intelligence and maturity of the fans of the ship.
And don't even get me started on the fact that it ignores everyone who wanted that relationship developed because they wanted Ianto developed and couldn't have cared less about Jack...
Truly, there's more to a relationship than sex, and RTD knows that. Jack/Ianto was more than that, and RTD acknowledges that. But if he could do it without insulting fans just because the fans don't agree with him, that would be really very nice.
And on a completely unrelated but just as irritating note, I just watched a House episode where the gay couple's baby dies and the nice heterosexual couple's baby lives, even though both were ill and the former's baby got sick later.
Oi.
On the bright side of things, I go to England in two months, and I've managed to go to the gym 3 days in a row. w007
Now, the first interview, I have absolutely no problem with. I mean, the "poetry" comment is weird (since when is poetry happy? *boggles*), and the Supernatural comment came off pretty badly, but...
The SPN thing was a good-natured joke (although not exactly in the best taste); I can understand him being annoyed by allegations of homophobia (Queer as Folk, guys; and he's being judged based on unfortunate implications from one miniseries); and... he's a writer who made a successful drama. Millions of people not only enjoyed it but, judging by the AIs, loved it, and he pulled people's heartstrings, just like he wanted.
RTD believes in what he wrote and why he wrote it, and he isn't about to let a few thousand people out of millions (a distinct minority) change his opinion. After what happened to Moran, I'm sure he's pretty annoyed by certain members of fandom too. And I think that's okay.
The second interview, on the other hand...
Most of what he says is fine, and I completely agree with it. Seeing the potential of what Jack and Ianto could have had die along with everything Ianto has already had did make the tragedy (NOTE: Not drama, tragedy) more poignant, and I can see why he made Jack and Ianto be just on the cusp of acknowledging their relationship as a relationship when Ianto dies. I can also see how he used Ianto's death as an impetus for Jack's actions (even if that does downplay the character to a plot point in Jack's character arc, which, um, I have a few issues with but anyway).
What I am not a fan of is this bit:
AE: I understand Ianto dying in order to push Captain Jack to do what he needed to do. But a lot of fans felt like they never got to see Jack and Ianto as the full-fledged couple that they wanted to see them as. We only began to see that in this miniseries. So how do you respond to viewers who feel cheated that they got the tragic death without seeing the relationship.
...
I think you’re being polite and part of what you're saying is that it wasn’t a properly sexualized relationship … that we didn’t show enough details … I think that’s absolute nonsense.
...Um, what?!
We got the sex, thanks. We got enough implied sex to make even the kinkiest porn plausible (well, much of it, anyway). We get it, they were doing it, and while we saw more of Owen's bedroom fun, I sincerely doubt most people were going "You know what their relationship really needs? Five minutes in the bedroom! Not any of that silly emotional stuff or the sorts of looks Jack gives Gwen or conversations or even tiny signs of affection, but rimming. Oh yeah."
I mean, yes, I won't deny that the scene in "Adrift" was hot and that there was much clamor for more.
But what I'm pretty sure most fans of the relationship wanted is what most fans of any relationship want: the romance and the emotional connection.
Personally, I don't ship Nine/Rose and Ten/Rose because of all the times we see them shagging on the console, and I don't think that would have improved the show or their relationship in any way. If anything, I think season 1's love story was one of the best I've ever seen. I also don't think Gwen/Rhys is wonderful because of how sexy Rhys is with his pants off (does anyone understand RTD's comments about people not liking Gwen/Rhys? Anyone? Bueller...?), and I don't see how adding in a few scenes of that would make us love it any more.
Because what Gwen and Rhys have, what we've been shown, is a solid relationship in which the two parties talk, and kiss, and date, and challenge each other, and support one another.
In terms of actual Jack/Ianto, what helped make the last scene of "Day 1" wasn't the kiss but the desperation behind it. And honestly, Jack's "Then I take it back, all right? I take it all back, but not him!" was a scene with a lot more power than the shagging in Adrift.
What so many fans wanted was the sort of give and take Rhys and Gwen got, real conversations and not just flirtation, emotional support and challenges and love and, yes, real drama. To a large extent, I do think we got that in Children of Earth more so than in season 2 and certainly more so than in season 1, because in those seasons, Jack/Ianto wasn't a real relationship yet and then, when it became one, it either wasn't shown, or we mainly got the sexual aspect of it. (I'm not saying there wasn't any development; "To the Last Man" sticks out in my mind as a very emotional and touching moment, and I love when Jack asks Ianto out in "Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang"--wonderfully acted, both scenes. But I am saying that just about every other relationship got so much more actual 'relationship' and less 'we do stuff with stopwatches and UNIT caps').
What really gets to me about that comment is the implicit assumption that all Jack/Ianto fans are just slash fangirls who want the pretty boys to make out more. That they don't care about the story or the characters, only the Hot.
Essentially, RTD seems to be lumping all fans of this relationship into a tiny box full of shallow slashers who only want boys kissing, which is an insult to the intelligence and maturity of the fans of the ship.
And don't even get me started on the fact that it ignores everyone who wanted that relationship developed because they wanted Ianto developed and couldn't have cared less about Jack...
Truly, there's more to a relationship than sex, and RTD knows that. Jack/Ianto was more than that, and RTD acknowledges that. But if he could do it without insulting fans just because the fans don't agree with him, that would be really very nice.
And on a completely unrelated but just as irritating note, I just watched a House episode where the gay couple's baby dies and the nice heterosexual couple's baby lives, even though both were ill and the former's baby got sick later.
Oi.
On the bright side of things, I go to England in two months, and I've managed to go to the gym 3 days in a row. w007