Scary, scary, scary...

[salienne]

Okay, first think of movies in general. Now think of movies with at least two women. Now think of movies with at least two women who have a conversation, and this conversation cannot be about the male love interest.

There are just about... none (and by none I mean so few I can't think of a single example at the moment).

It works for tv shows too.

This disturbs me.

EDIT: It just occurred to me that this was pointed out in an online comic whose link I can't find at the moment. It's not an "original" thought of my own or anything. It's just something that creeps me out.

Comments

[enigma731.livejournal.com]

HOUSE.

SLEEPING DOGS LIE--CAMERON AND CUDDY DISCUSS FOREMAN'S ARTICLE THEFT.

[salienne.livejournal.com]

YES THERE'S ONE!!!1ONE

[lorie-dublonnet.livejournal.com]

I don't watch many films, but I can think of two (both involve homosexuality): Heavenly Creatures (Kate Winslet's debut, directed by the ultimate Peter Jackson) and The Children's Hour (Audrey Hepburn).

As far as television goes, again, I don't watch very much at all, but I have been watching Buffy. Female protagonist and lesbians for more than one series. Other popular shows: The West Wing and Friends (where the girls talk about guys as much as vice versa).

I think that the lack of females in the roles you describe has little to do with sexism, and a lot more to do with the predominance of men in society in general, and therefore there is a lot more versatility for making a male character than a female character.

[salienne.livejournal.com]

Yeah, tv shows and movies that involve gays and lesbians seem to have this more than maintream films do. (And I now want to check out those movies, yay! Though, in terms of tv shows, "Friends" has never interested me all that much. "The West Wing" and "Buffy" were awesome, though.)

Oh, I definitely agree. It's not outright sexism so much as the fact that our society is male-dominated and interesting characters tend to be male (I'm guilty of this too, just looking at my novel). But... that's still a latent form of sexism right there, becuase how many times do you see the main female anithero? The girl who sweeps the guy off his feet? Or, well, anywhere that's not a chick flick? It's like females can't be as interesting as males. And it's really bothersome when one starts thinking about it.

[shaela]

Doctor Who. Pretty much any scene with Rose and Jackie Tyler in it. Rose and Raffalo. Rose and Gwyneth. Rose and Harriet Jones. Rose and Nancy. (Yet another reason I love that show.)

[salienne.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was thinking about Doctor Who. Not every episode fits, but quite a lot do. I was rewatching Blink today, and that one epitomizes "awesome female lead who also has conversations with another female!".

Makes me appreciate the show even more too. ^.^

[salienne.livejournal.com]

And I just realized that I'm not sure if you've posted in my lj before... and how rude of me it was not to say hello! Sheesh, Ten's rubbing off on me.

So... hi! :)

[shaela]

That’s okay. I should’ve introduced myself when I came barging into your journal. :) But I thought it was an interesting thought experiment—and the only movie I could think of was The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe (Lucy and Susan have a couple of scenes together), which makes me very sad.

[salienne.livejournal.com]

Oh that's all right. Bargers-in are always welcome. :)

And I saw part of that movie... I should rewatch it.

And we need more movies witout the male lead and the female damsel-in-distress/romantic interest. @_@

[kirasha]

Gilmore Girls, Sound of Music, Practical Magic, Anne of Green Gables/Avonlea, Gone with the Wind, Danielle Steele's Jewels (Yes, Danielle Steele), Mists of Avalon, Women's Murder Club (based upon a series of crime novels written by a man, incidentally), Titanic, The Others, Last Holiday, Beauty Shop, Ghost Whisperer, Blood Ties, Where the Heart Lies, Dangerous Beauty...

I think part of it also depends on the type of conversation you're looking for. What's an example of a conversation between two males that you can't find between two females?

Deep, philosophical conversations between two men or a man and a woman are just as rare, I think. Real conversation as opposed to sex, violence, and prat falls is rare in most modern films -- or at least it seems like it some days. You're not going to see Rambo and whatever the main character's name is from Die Hard sitting down to discuss the current political climate of South Africa, for instance. Nor does the crew from American Pie really care about whether it's better for the economy or not to give amnesty to illegal immigrants. As long as the paying public en masse prefers physically-focused material as opposed to intellectually-based material, this is what you get.

Also, the source material (since so many films, especially are based on books) is going to be a factor. Most of your 'classics' were written during ages in which women were little more than set dressing in real life society. It wasn't until well into the twentieth century that we see that change on any sort of large scale (as opposed to the smaller, individual societies with more equal or even matriarchal leanings).

[salienne.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, I should check out some of those.

And by conversations, I don't mean deep philosophical chats because, really, who has time for those in a 2-hour movie? I just mean some chat about something that is not the leading man/love interest. In Constantine, for example, you have Constantine going around and talking to loads of guys about his cancer situation/the Balance/etc. And you have Angela... talking to a male priest, her male partner, and Constantine. In The Matrix, Neo talks about non-Trinity thinks with lots of people: Cypher, Morphius, the Oracle, etc. Morphius does the same. Even Agent Smith. Trinity... supposedly talked to the Oracle about Neo at one point. And she talks to the rest of the male crew... and she talks to Neo... but to any of those other strong women in the movie? Nope. Unless there's a scene buried in the rest that I've just forgotten.

Lots of movies nowadays tend to have the "savior" figure/antihero type, but this figure is always male. Except for maybe one minor female friend and/or the female love interest, everyone else on his "team" or that he encounters is too.

Female leads/conversations, though, when they're even in the forefront, tend to be in "chick flicks" or "teen movies" and the like. Which is pretty ridiculous.

And why I adore "Charmed", even if half the movie is watching the girls hook up and some of the episodes are just silly. :P