"Mixed Feelings" is the right term, I think

[salienne]

Now, first off, I'd just like to say that if this were the only piece of Doctor Who I'd ever seen, I'd love it. Honestly, I would adore every moment. Cuddle it, squee over it, analyze it to iddy bitty bits and gape at the brilliance. Because while you knew what was coming in the second part, there was enough in it to surprise you (every part with Donna was brilliant, and CAL's origins were awesome, just to name two parts). Also, River as a character was someone I really liked, and the whole "You meet me on the day I 'die'" thing works in-episode. It's just a great circular tale, that's set up and concludes very tightly.

Except, you know, until you think about the psychology of that, but I'll get to that in a bit.

My other big issue, though, is that this episode is still part of a larger show. And this takes danger out of the Doctor's life in the near future to some extent. And it dictates what happens with the whole Rose thing. And Donna.

And you know, yes, I am a Doctor/Rose shipper, and while I accept and know and hope that the Doctor will find other people to love, I don't like knowing for a fact that Rose isn't sticking around after this season. Because clearly, she's not if the Doctor finds himself a different wife in the same regeneration.

But, I figure that annoyance will fade as we move on with the show. So, my other issues:

1. Whisper=his name=too predictable. I mean, yes, it's nice, but I would've liked to have seen something a bit more funky there.

2. The "Snap of Rasillon," as orange_crushed put it. Just... no, okay? No. WTF is up with keys then? Why couldn't the Doctor have figured this out, say, 900 years ago? Just... no.

3. Larger story arc wise, why introduce her in the midst of/right before Rose returns? It just... cheapens it. Whether or not you like the whole Doctor/Rose thing, sticking a second love-interest in the middle of another love-focused story (and knowing this is the love-interest that's going to "win", meaning that Rose HAS to leave) pretty much removes doubt about the future. To a large extent, really. And thanks, but some of us like surprise. And story-arcs that aren't sort of twisted/contradicted in the middle. That whole emotional continuity thing.

4. As I mentioned earlier, so the Doctor's going to survive through S4 and a while after, then? And unless he starts snapping his fingers all through the Specials, he's in S5 then? And when is River gonna come back? Or is there gonna be some chunk of time that we don't actually see even hinted to on-screen where we just assume he was travelling and seeing River?

Unless she comes back and is a companion, and you know, I might like that. Seeing fandom explode would make me a bit happy. :P

But the bit that really bugs me:
5. So the day he meets her, he knows how she's going to die. Real healthy relationship, that. Also, way too much other psychological yick ("Well I did like her and must end up telling her my name [i.e. marrying], so I'm going to look for things I'll fall in love with, but I'm also going to be super-sensitive to anything that stands out as BAD because that's how people work, but I'll also look for the good things especially because confirmation bias and all that, and she's going to die at some point, how old is she now, and I might as well just marry her because I'm going to anyway, but she's going to die, but they all die, but I'll save her sort-of, but I do like her and hey, look, I'm in love with her and she really is wonderful but this is only temporary happiness but what isn't and I know when she's going to die, must ignore that, let's ignore something else that's going to screw with me in the back of my head," and so on).

The psychologist-to-be in me cringes. The writer in me is only half-impressed, possiby less so because it's so expected. No matter how well it was written.

Phew... I feel better about that. Ranting is good for me, I think.

But, still, I gave this episode an initial 5/5 because, by itself, it does work. Except for the whole weird psychology thing, but except for Gallifrey angst, the show has always rather failed at that.

So, now to give myself some distance and let it grow on me...

Though the snapping bit? No. Just... never ever ever ever. No.

Comments

[biggrstaffbunch.livejournal.com]

Regarding point five: So in theory, the Doctor is now sort of...OBLIGATED to love her in an "epic" love sort of way. 'Cause if he doesn't, things get fucked up. WEIRD.

The masochist in me likes to imagine him being like, WHAT. WHAT, REALLY? BUT, BUT SHE PICKS HER NOSE AND--oh, alright. Fine.

Ick. Distance is good. For now, there's RPF and fic.

[salienne.livejournal.com]

EXACTLY! It's just... really really awkward and creepy and weird when you look past the poetry of it, and even that's been done before.

Hee. That would amuse me. Though now I'm thinking of this long multi-layered/chaptered fic in which he falls in love, but always has that deep dysfunctional aspect because he knows he has to fall in love and when/how she's going to die. And how bizarre is it that he just lets her go in the end and doesn't try to rewrite history? Just... very odd.

*Nods in mucho agreement*

[biggrstaffbunch.livejournal.com]

And how bizarre is it that he just lets her go in the end and doesn't try to rewrite history?

My theory is that he's already weighed the outcomes in his mind. It's kind of a clusterfuck, isn't it? Conceivably, future!Doctor really loves and trusts River, or has convinced himself/her that he does, anyway, which causes her to love and trust him enough to call him to the library, where events occur that will inevitably have further bearing on his own timeline. So that's all well and good for future!Doctor. But rightnow!Doctor loves and trusts Donna more, because he knows her. So if he were to try and rewrite history, he may hurt her. Events may occur that would lead to her death. So that selfish, desperate side of him that is sort of unimpressed by the titillating "spoilers" of his life with River, it decides to just go on ahead and preserve the timeline. Righteous!Doctor forthewin!

Either that, or Moffat got lazy with characterization. I am not surprised. I know you like him, but damn. As good as Donna's story was, and as cute and clever as he can be, he can be just as awful.

But that's just my embittered opinion <3

[salienne.livejournal.com]

Oooh, interesting theory. I didn't even factor in Donna. Interesting.

I was thinking more along the lines of, why would future!Doctor just let her die. But I guess he put time and the universe before himself again and convinced himself that life inside a computer is almost as good as being really alive? (More of that, life as a paving slab is better than being dead, I suppose.) Granted, he's just not that great at self-delusion, so after he lets her go, there'll be more of that "I doomed her" in the back of his head.

...Thanks, Moffat. As if the Doctor doesn't have enough uber!guilt.

Hey, you are more than allowed to not like him. He sure as hell bugs me at times (as this post shows), and his apparent anti-Rose stuff and especially his Woman Issues worry me loads. 'Cos they peak out from his episodes, so what's going to happen when we have 5 or 6 episodes per year by him? I appreciate his talents, yeah, but I can definitely see the weaknesses too.

[sunnytyler001.livejournal.com]

Actually both love stories are cheapened, as we know Rose/Doctor is doomed and as the Doctor knows River will end up sacrifying herself for him. Everytime he might tell her "I love you", everytime he'll do soemthing nice and special for her (like giving her his screwdriver or telling her his name), we'll wonder if this is because she's so special and he loves her and wants to marry her, or because he feels guilty about her "death" and anyway that's part of the "plan" to protect the timeline.
Also, "snap of Rassilon"? This is made of win!

[salienne.livejournal.com]

In my view, the Doctor is too "human" (i.e. too driven by his emotions) to be able to do that, so I do think he really falls in love with River. I just can't help but wonder, though, how much talking himself into it there is, and even if he wholeheartedly loves her and adores her and wants to marry her, how much the whole "I have to do all this and I know when you're going to die and it's all my fault" is going to mess with his head.

Hee, orange_crushed is my hero forthat.

[hippiebanana132.livejournal.com]

Seriously, so many issues with this episode.

I agree completely on the clicking. No. Please. Do not want. I love his little yale lock.

And Moffat is incapable of not referencing himself. This was GitF with a library and some lines gacked from The Doctor Dances.

[salienne.livejournal.com]

RE referincing himself: Yeah, noticed that. And if you notice it, it does start to wear on one's nerves.

The bit that really bugged me, though, was the "I'm always all right." I loved how he said it, and Donna's reaction, but it sort of felt like a purposeful contrast between Donna and Rose and how Donna is better. So while I love the scene by itself, I have issues with the comparison, especially since in my view, Rose does know he's not all right and she comes back and talks to him later.

It's just... can we have less companion comparison please? It sucked for Martha, and it sucks from an out-of-verse perspective for all the companions.